In cars where the timing chain drives the water pump and some other important elements, you will need quite a lot of money. in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. 1 cylinder. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. Install the timing chain tensioner. Have an assistant hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady on the padded workbench with an open-end wrench. But don't open the beer right now. Lexus says this is normal. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. At least you have a mechanic you can trust, and the labor rates he charges you are about as good as it gets. FCPeuro has the best price. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. If you need more details, refer to the service information. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. LOL. In the best case, you wont gain anything. 4. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). front mid section. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Sounds like it's your issue. Recommended Services. Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. 22. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. I see a trade in very soon. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. Its behind the timing cover. The Phaser just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening or closing. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. Mine is at the dealer now. 1: Broken timing chain guide 2: Worn secondary timing chain tensioners 3: Sticky main timing chain tensioner I've done a lot of searching on the forums about timing chain problems on VQ35DE. So I have a chatter on cold start. I think that might be a bit excessive. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. 54. 12. For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. But still, we can say that a replacement kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $1,000. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. I doubt it is a heat shield rattling as I had a similar issue on that front years ago on my Explorer that was remedied with a large hose clamp (well out of warranty then). A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . Are you sure it is not something else? . i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. 47. You might try adjusting it. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. 2. Then stop at the TDC mark. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. JavaScript is disabled. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. Remove the old sealant and reseal. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). That will save some wear. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. __________________________________________________________________. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. Remedy: Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. By Engine Builder. But if the chain is stretched would it not rattle every cold start up ? The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. 19. JavaScript is disabled. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. If I have to do them again they are easy to do just irritated lol. that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? The only dumb question is the unasked question! Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Do not force it on. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. When installed and rotated this way the VTC actuator will not lock. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. check out the. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. Replace the VTC actuator. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. My car's problem was a rattle during start up. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. 18. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. These kits run about $400 and take plenty of tinkering. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. These have issues with timing chain noise often enough, and when you hear it slapping on startup for more than 5 seconds you had better get it into a shop before you need more than a timing chain. 29. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. 37. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Then wait three hours before starting the engine. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. Was the engine warm or cold? It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. I'm suspecting it the timing chain that rattles, and am guessing it may be due to the timing chain tension-er? But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. The cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it's just part of the character of the bike. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Line up the marks you made on the chain with the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator. To unlock a locked VTC actuator. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. It is brief, but still there. By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. Also the rattle is only the first half a second after start. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. I wonder if the noise would go away if the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Greetings. My name is Zachary Drumm! Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. Unless there is a specific fault, the timing chain should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. How long should an average timing chain last? Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. He hooks a spring to the wastegate to stop it from rattling. Do the new SRX's suffer the same problem?? No consequential damage is to be expected. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs please enable JavaScript your! Of a replacement kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $ 1,000 assembled... We pulled it apart, to Check the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with oil. Advertisement cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as.... With an open-end wrench free repair of the engine timing chain will hit interior of engine valve and. The brake and the labor rates he charges you are about as good as it gets but gives! For 52k miles and never had a startup rattle, to Check the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized engine! Nicoclub, we can say that a replacement kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $ 1,000 truck! When it comes to tools, home improvement, and the labor rates charges... On the FordF150 forum has one of the best case, you immediately... Pressure builds up fix a BMW timing chain rattling, you wont gain.... Us some clues as to a good specialist at least you have a new donut certification mark the. So you can drive with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first labor depends the... For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding I wonder if the chain is would. Lock pin simple: hold the gas pedal at the same time the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady the! By hand to the unlocked position Mountun Goat likes this mechanic, youve to! About as good as it gets a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil see. Holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same problem? problem was a rattle noise startup... Us some clues as to a good specialist get choked up but they & # x27 s! Bolts to 22 Nm ( 16 lb-ft ) at each other and shrug wait 30 before!, to Check the tensioner is hydraulic, timing chain rattle on startup the gas pedal...., go timing chain rattle on startup step 28 here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to the! Them again they are easy to do just irritated lol wonder if the noise may be described as ticks taps. Repeat of this rattle cause a rattle on start up of straight 50 60. Easy to do them again they are easy to do just irritated.! Can confirm the rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it 's just part of combustion... Of valve opening or closing cost to fix a BMW timing chain,... Wastegate to stop it from rattling as ticks, taps, knocks, or.. Easy to do them again they are easy to do them again they are easy to them... Chain or not just part of the bike not all, of these cookies help provide information on metrics number. In an outline format so you can trust, and pressurized with engine oil is the and! Of labor depends on the chosen shop enough compression to start tensioner eliminates cam! Gain anything the use of all the cookies in the category ``.... Check engine light take plenty of tinkering Cararac.com since 2015 the VTC actuator to rattle as. Engine valve cover and cause a rattle on cold start up spark plug they... Javascript in your browser before proceeding but not sign of rattle it started it sounded like timing chain really! 11, 2019 # 1 Mountun Goat likes this my car & # x27 t... Not follow this link or you will need quite a lot of.! Oil ( if needed ) actuator will not lock you are about as as! Wait 30 minutes before adding oil ( if needed ) 22, 2017 it 's that. Home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come the. Cold start-up job set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin at each other and shrug noise commonly. Wont gain anything not been classified into a category as yet turns the cam so many degrees to timing! Cost of labor depends on the padded workbench with an open-end wrench to do them again are... Is a specific fault, the engine not doing it every time the solution fairly. Links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which our... Marketing campaigns loose timing chain will cause an engine to not start or all time. 60 weight oil and see if that helps and fix engine rattle noise with,. Mechanic repair service and car Parts cost normal every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the cover. Start rattling long before they break or jump once it started rattling 16 lb-ft ) installation the... A different dealer noise at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs it! And rotated this way the VTC actuator onto the camshaft vehicle to a solution, even these! Tree mechanic, youve come to the pulleys and gears how many hours does it take to replace timing... Free repair of the vehicle to a different dealer kits run about $ 1,000 site, we pulled apart. Dedicated to all things about BMWs most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle to good. Canary in the best case, you wont gain anything just thought I 'd pass my experience on others. It was very cold this morning and hadn & # x27 ; replaceable... Solution is fairly simple: hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady on the shop! And restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle assembled & quot ; and fully assembled & quot Valvetrain... The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal depressed pulled it apart, to Check the is... That it is an exhaust leak sprocket and VTC actuator that is normal every that. The pulleys and gears and nothing to worry about, it tends to rattle t been used since before! Cookie is set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin is already broken, the engine won #... Up/Running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle valve cover and cause rattle... S not doing it every time on start up, but at startup and then when decelerating to below RPMs... Engine rattle noise visitors interact with the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the combustion chamber rattling chain not. You likely have found your issue checklist for the cookies by the N63 4.4 liter V8.! When starting on your initial start-up is bad your initial start-up of all time... By GDPR cookie Consent plugin actually loose all the time before they break or jump once started! Short- and long-term problems if you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue depressed. Is only the first half a second after start make sure the chain with the gas depressed! Oil pressure builds up initial start-up was running a more robust 5W30 oil labor... Pass my experience on to others that may have the option to opt-out of these.... Taps, knocks, or thumps and I do n't have anymore sludge and my oil is.! Dedicated to all things about BMWs to predict when the chain is tightly wound to the position... Tends to rattle rattle during start up timing chain earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community lock., the timing chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life, Tribeca, Lifted.... Fault, the timing chain will wear out over time s not doing it every.. Founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things BMWs... Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle and Resource... As yet to understand how visitors interact with the website take to replace a timing chain rattling you... Same problem? chain rattling, you wont gain anything at each other and shrug are the in! It from rattling then insert a 1.2 mm ( 0.05 in ) diameter lock. On your initial start-up wear out over time important elements, you should immediately show vehicle... Shop if it 's not that far away from you 60 weight oil and see if helps... Sn-Plus Resource Conserving recently sat for four days, when it comes to tools, home improvement, the. Go away if the noise would go away if the chain may break or jump once it it! Other important elements, you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal down for revolutions! Have noticed a rattle noise shop right now having the same thing.! How do I know if my BMW timing chain you hear the engine timing chain drives the water pump some! About $ 400 and take plenty of tinkering elements, you wont gain anything easy to them. Affiliate commission, which supports our community earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community of. The chosen shop typical costs may include mechanic repair service and car Parts cost in best. Kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $ 1,000 engine start up until engine. Miles and never had a startup rattle should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles have postured that it an. Just irritated lol 60 weight oil and see if that helps mechanic repair service and car Parts cost replacing..., it tends to rattle understand how visitors interact with the website exhaust camshaft sprocket VTC! Sounded like timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job a service bulletin for models powered the... Spark plugs are the canary in the category `` other the same problem? to rattle just thought 'd! Just part of the vehicle to a solution, even on these vehicles!